Curse

hyro yamaguchi · May 28, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

@Starting post

exactly why I quit monking, and turned to necroing and ranging.

Having the pressure of an entre team on your shoulders is one thing, but when you're trying as hard as you can and people start blaming you for not healing them, even though they are standing far away from the group, is another.

I really like monking, that is with guildies or any good group, but the rubbish that you get when playing in an unorganized group is just too much.

Respect for all people who continue monking despite all of this!!!!

Respect!

TalonTheCat · May 28, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Some people are taking this thread way too seriously. It seems it was meant as a light hearted fun - not an elitist attitude. Most of the "top 10" can be applied to any class with some modification.

jummeth · May 28, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

It spreads the wrong message.

Monks are not the be all or end all of a group.
If your group doesn't die etc. Its not always because of the monk. Good warriors for eg. can boost your caster armour to 130AL while still dishing out 100+ damage adren spikes. Eles can eles can halve the number of hits you get from melee etc...

I recall being in a pug where the monk had no condition or hex removal, used heal other and healing breeze as their only healing skills. Of course the party never died but that was due to a very competant war and rit.

If you find you are constantly running out of energy, you should look at your build. Cookie cutter builds are great if you know how to use them.

In PvP: silly war chases guardianed/PS'd monk, I chase silly war... ooo Crit ++ XD and frenzy w/o negative effects.

Don Zardeone · May 28, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Hmmm, I play monk sometimes in PvE and I came up with my own build.
I'm still a big fat noob at it but I use signets+inspired hex or whatever is ok for energymanagement for what I'm about to do.

When I play warrior, I usually have no idea about what the hell is going on in the back of the team but I try to keep the required healing to a minimum.

But when I play monk I sometimes have the ability to see what other monks are doing and about 90% of them are crap.

They use heal breeze as a "quick heal".
Heal area is very common for them too, they don't notice it heals the enemy.
Healing touch.. they run off to follow the warrior who just agroed everything only to take away his aggro and die.

I like using the energy armours for monks but when other people drag monsters onto me and I die, it makes me look bad and eventually they'll congratulate the heal party/heal other spam monk.

A few days ago I was in a team and there was another monk and after the first mob he was like "NO RUSHING". "my energy is 1 of 46" (spammed *5)
We stopped and I stood around.
Next mob same thing.
The guy was constantly running out of energy.

Then I got pissed and healed the monk while he was at full health. After about 2 minutes I was still healing him, stopped and ctrlclicked my energy.. "I have 48 of 48 energy"
-_-

The problem isn't the non-monks.

The problem is everyone. 90% of all people in pugs in GW don't know how to play well. This is a fact, I didn't make that number up. (around 280-290 people I met out of the 320 I observed had no clue = 90%)

The Great Al · May 28, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

howbout someone make a thread called "10 reasons why PUGs hate monks?" Monks arent 'special', they're a class like the rest of us, and have no reason to have a holier than thou attitude

Medion · May 28, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

I am so glad I stopped PvE-ing with PuGs, (not that I PvE often) I just can't stand the PvE-monks in general. Why? Most of them are arrogant, agree with me or not, I don't care, but they think they are the most important person in the party.
Besides that, many monks are not that skilled. People think they need 3 monks in the party for THK, I am quite sure my guildmate has done THK as the only monk. This is not to say all monks are bad, just that most don't have a clue about what they are doing.

But anyway, Alesia and Mhenlo > 99% non-guild/non-friend monks

And please, get some E-management, it's not that hard.

EDIT:

Quote:

Having LA armor in THK isn't a good idea

Actually, I like to keep my pre-searing armour, that way I can irritate my monk teammembers (who ofcourse are my guildies (and yes, somehow they can keep me alive most of the time up till and including the Desert))

Storn · May 28, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I play a monk often in PvE. I play in quite a few PUGs.

Quote:

The problem is everyone. 90% of all people in pugs in GW don't know how to play well.

I'm not sure if I agree with you. I just got stuck on a Cantha mission...where I went through 5 or 6 tries with PUGs and we always did okay, until at one point, it all fell apart and lost the mission. Then the 7th try or so, we got this team that just clicked. good communication, good leadership...and we blasted through the mission and got the Master's level on the mission.

Here is the thing. I don't think that 7th team was substantially better players than the previous 6. I think all the PUGs had good players, some exceptional.

But I think that the 7th team gelled with good players...but it gelled. That is the key. It was a TEAM. Great players do not make a team... ask any person who plays sports. Great teams make great teams.

I think there are lots of very good players. Just not that many great teams.

Quote:

They use heal breeze as a "quick heal".
Heal area is very common for them too, they don't notice it heals the enemy.
Healing touch.. they run off to follow the warrior who just agroed everything only to take away his aggro and die.

Healing breeze is a wonderful spell. I use it all the time. I get complimented on my monk... so I can't suck all that bad. I will not use Heal area or Heal touch for the reasons you've stated.

Quote:

I recall being in a pug where the monk had no condition or hex removal, used heal other and healing breeze as their only healing skills. Of course the party never died but that was due to a very competant war and rit.

If you find you are constantly running out of energy, you should look at your build. Cookie cutter builds are great if you know how to use them.

I don't carry Hex removal... I'll offset Hexes with Healing Breeze or Vigorous Spirit...those two in tandem can do a lot of the healing work for me.. Hex removal seems so slow and such a long recharge that it sounds great in principal... but i've never gotten it to really work for me in play.

I do carry Mend Ailment and love it. I carry Mend Ailment over Mend condition (despite condition being faster) because I like the aiblity to use it on myself, if poisoned (often the tactic of enemy rangers).

But most of the healing I do is 5 pt quickies...so energy management is a little less of a problem... I can usually go 5 minutes of constant spell casting before worrying that I'm around the 5 energy mark. And I do have increased energy recovery skill on my skillbar (just blanking on the name, its an elite).

I have a very high Divine, which makes the little 5 pts or even Mend Ailment fairly potent spells.

And for the record, I like PUGs... I like the challenge and I love that occasional awesome PUG team that comes along.

jummeth · May 28, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

i'll admit, in PvE you rarely get a really threatening hex. But if a monk goes into battle without some kind of condition removal, they deserve to get spanked.

Doomlord_Slayermann · May 28, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

You forgot the worst of it all... immature warriors pulling off pelvic thrusts to your face.

Rusty Deth · May 28, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Well i played a monk for about 7 months ( in fact still do ) but it just isn't fun anymore. Keeping people alive? Bah, I want to kill stuff.

So I play mostly as a Ranger and Warrior. Mostly a Warrior now cause, well I like killing stuff. Hey some people farm for fun, I like to kill things for fun.

Anywho i found out I do pretty damn good with the henchie monks. Even the bad ones in Cantha. I do most missions like that and have pretty good success.

But if I'm in a PUG. Damn, it feels like we're invincible. So much so it doesn;t really feel like we needed two monks. But hey, everyone else wanted one.

So I really I think all this Monk bashing that goes on starts with people who aren't that good to begin with. And they need PUG's to get anywhere in the game.

Being a monk, I kind of learn whats expected when playing other classes. It goes beyond just arrgo'ing everything, but personal responsiblity on keeping yourself alive.

As a monk i learned fast I can;t keep everyone alive. And as a Warrior I know the monk won;t always have my back.

You got 8 skills people, they don;t all have to be offense.

arcady · May 28, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankon

I don't have ten off hand but I can think of a few,

Don't yell at me to heal you, if you need it you will get it, and if you spam... Well.. yeah..

Maybe I'm showing off my newness in this comment but...

If in the middle of a big battle with 'big nasty of the moment(tm)' you have the free time to type out:
"somebody get his punk a** over here and heal my butt!"
... then, in my opinion, there are problems that go way beyond just how you are treating your group healers.

When I'm fighting something in this game, my mouse clicking, 'c', 'space bar', 'tab', etc, is going so fast I don't have the time or luxury to let go and move over to the keyboard and type out so much as the first letter 'r' in 'run away'...

Lurid · May 28, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Most of the time if we have a "tank it all" kinda player i'll quickly draw an escape route on the map for all the sqishies, anyone who follows usually lives. Then we worry about ressing some moron alittle later.

Tijger · May 28, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer

- Nice list -

Summer

Sometimes I think everyone should be forced to build a level 20 monk before they are even allowed to become warriors

I still enjoy monking on occasion, it makes for a nice change from bashing stuff and being on the frontline all the time. Whenever someone feels the need to be rude or dismissive of my work as a monk there is always the tried and trusted monk recourse of "ok, heal yourself then"

Good players who know sh*t happens and that everyone can die at times rarely bitch and moan about healing, they take it in stride and you can easily tell the good ones from the reaction after the mission/quest because they'll thank the monk(s).

I know your list is lighthearted but nevertheless, its also quite true

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

howbout someone make a thread called "10 reasons why PUGs hate monks?" Monks arent 'special', they're a class like the rest of us, and have no reason to have a holier than thou attitude

Tell me the last time you saw a warrior having a go at an ele for not casting meteor shower fast enough or a mesmer for not interrupting target x? How would you like it if monks started shouting "hey noob, kill that baddie faster!"?
No, you're right, monks definitely have no right to attitudes but neither do others have a right to bash monks when they die due to (generally) sheer stupidity or incompetence.

PS: I've found a better way to make money now, I think, just go to THK and shout "Monk for rent, 2K per run" Based on what I saw today I'd make tons of cash

SasquatchTimeToDie · May 29, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

When you create your character, there are 6 - 8 options for you to choose from: Warrior, Ranger, Necromancer, Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer (Assassin, Ritualist). The Monk isn't some secret option. The Monk isn't an unlockable. Therefore, Monk == Every other profession.

So, why do Monks need to be thanked? The Minion Master doesn't get any. The Tank, who has an equally vital job, isn't getting any. Why you? Your job is to heal. It isn't a favor you are doing us out of courtesy. It’s what you are required to do. That is the definition of a job. You should get the same as everybody else, be it Faction, loot, gold or mission completion, and not more, not less. If you do an EXCEPTIONAL job, then OF COURSE, you deserve praise, and thanks! But you never get to make a list of demands before entering a group.

If a group member dies it is divided 12.5%, 16.6% or 25% amongst everybody. That’s how a team works.

Stockholm · May 29, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

I love my Smiting monk, selfheal and kickass(while wammo is screaming HEAL ME n00b Monk)

CyberNigma · May 29, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I've finished THK plenty of times but needed to do so with my Canthan. I was in a group with 3 monks, and for some reason they felt that because they had 3 monks they didn't need to listen to anyone else's input. 3 monks couldn't keep the king alive in the end... I just finished mission/bonus on THK with the help of friends and henchies (including henchie monks)... It's not the classes that are the problem (any class). It's the attitudes associated with them both for and against monks.

**cosyfiep** · May 29, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

Tell me the last time you saw a warrior having a go at an ele for not casting meteor shower fast enough or a mesmer for not interrupting target x? How would you like it if monks started shouting "hey noob, kill that baddie faster!"?
No, you're right, monks definitely have no right to attitudes but neither do others have a right to bash monks when they die due to (generally) sheer stupidity or incompetence.

obviously you have never played a nuker.....warriors shout NUKE! NUKE NOW....uhm, I just did, it still is recharging or I am kitting because the warrior let some aggro past him (and m shower takes 5 seconds to launch--would be dead before I could get it off).....I have had this happen on a number of occasions....

I still say hats off to monks.....if you think about it the monk is about the ONLY prof that everyone always wants in their group, you can do without the necro, ele, and warrior (yep, have gone without warriors and had no problems), but the monk is always wanted (even if its just as a 2ndary---like the trapers UW and such groups).....and it requires some skill to play.

so thanks again monks, but dont let it go to your heads, ok?

Lurid · May 29, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SasquatchTimeToDie

When you create your character, there are 6 - 8 options for you to choose from: Warrior, Ranger, Necromancer, Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer (Assassin, Ritualist). The Monk isn't some secret option. The Monk isn't an unlockable. Therefore, Monk == Every other profession.

So, why do Monks need to be thanked? The Minion Master doesn't get any. The Tank, who has an equally vital job, isn't getting any. Why you? Your job is to heal. It isn't a favor you are doing us out of courtesy. It’s what you are required to do. That is the definition of a job. You should get the same as everybody else, be it Faction, loot, gold or mission completion, and not more, not less. If you do an EXCEPTIONAL job, then OF COURSE, you deserve praise, and thanks! But you never get to make a list of demands before entering a group.

If a group member dies it is divided 12.5%, 16.6% or 25% amongst everybody. That’s how a team works.

I as much as I hate to say it, have to agree. Though with your system of equality we should neither get more respect nor more hatred from a group. I in my experience as any character, over roughly 9 months of playing both games (total obviously) have never seen any character get as much crap from not doing there job with lightning relfexes.

Why is that? Because it is our job to allow almost all the others to do theres, we form a varitable back bone of the group. As such more often than not we are taken for granted, almost as though our job is somehow less of that of the damage dealers, people don't realize how difficult it is to sustain a group of eight morons. The reason alot of us (myself included more than I would like to admit) act as though we are somehow better than the rest of the group is because most jobs involve killing some sort of AI monster, not dealing with a moron up front who tries to aggro every damn thing on Earth, or tries to nuke when a mob is headed straight for them.

There should be no animosity between the groups because when we work together, in an intelligent manner at one point or another each class or well made build will be equal to that of the other. I say we stop bashing on one group (I speak for the Monks here, as i've seen less others get bashed as badly) simply because they have made one tiny error that has merely caused an inconvience to the group as a whole. As well as stop this system of one being better than the other, as in the case of some Monks (again myself included) feeling superior, and classes such as Mesmers being thought of as inferior. Those two are obviously not the only high and mighty or down trodden class.

/end rant.

Lord Ertihan · May 29, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Maybe I'm showing off my newness in this comment but...

If in the middle of a big battle with 'big nasty of the moment(tm)' you have the free time to type out:
"somebody get his punk a** over here and heal my butt!"
... then, in my opinion, there are problems that go way beyond just how you are treating your group healers.

When I'm fighting something in this game, my mouse clicking, 'c', 'space bar', 'tab', etc, is going so fast I don't have the time or luxury to let go and move over to the keyboard and type out so much as the first letter 'r' in 'run away'...

Quoted for truth. Seriously, fellas, first of all the monk, if he's a healing monk of any kind, KNOWS that you need healing. He's probably doing his best to get to you, but don't forget he can only cast one spell at a time, and if he's a healer, the only spell he has that is shorter than 3/4 seconds long is Infuse Health (unless he's a boon prot. In which case you'll only get a boon-powered Reversal when you're REALLY in danger. Believe me, the monk knows better than you do whether you're really in danger or not). Yelling at your monk doesn't help unless you're in a GvG, and you're over vent, and you're getting pwnz0red.

I've had my healing monk since ... forever. Well at least since Guild Wars Prophesies betas. I've been healing when Air spikers were the rage in Tombs. I've been healing since Flesh Golem farming was still possible. And over that entire time I have NEVER, EVER seen any time when someone yelling, "OMG HEAL ME NOOB MONK" actually helped the situation. If you have the time to type that, you have the time to either run away so that you stop taking damage and transfer aggro to someone who can, or stand there so that the monks can focus heals on you to keep your butt alive.

lg5000 · May 29, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I play/ed a monk in Tyria. I'm dreading starting in Cantha for reasons to do with energy and lack of ability on my behalf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Top 10 reasons why PUGs hate monks.

8. Using Rebirth. Rebirth is quite possibly the last skill that should ever be seen in a primary monk's skill bar. It ranks below Amity. It ranks below freaking Keystone Signet.

My monk carries rebirth on her, why? because if I have to res anyone, the entire party is dead and I managed to get out alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Deth

You got 8 skills people, they don;t all have to be offense.

Uhm, you have 7 skills, the 8th should be a res of some sort, only very few occasions will allow you to not carry a res. Pve isn't one of them.

Now, for every other profession I play, I quite often go secondary monk, that's because 7 skills are primary skills, the 8th would be nice if it was a hard res.

My mesmer is secondary monk by nature. No, I will not self-heal/bring heals for the party, that's what the monk is for. But.. in case we have a death, resurection chant gets them up in slightly more time than a res sig, and while they might not have the most amount of energy.. at least they have life to run.

Then again, in most cases, I will take responsibility if I'm dying too.. means I probably did something rather stupid, like not watching aggro.

I am looking forward to the assassin though

I can make the monk's life hell without feeling bad about it, simply by blaming it on the fact I have low armor

(my assassin is a storage character until I learn to not die)